Roof – Part 3: Installing almost everything on the roof

roof box frame. Eventually, I’ll remove that errant little scrap of 2×10 nailed to the rafters.

box frame for insulation almost complete

The shingle elevator was made out of wood, and it broke after the week of rain weakened it. So I welded a new one. It works better, but I’m worried about the rails it rides, which are 22 foot long 2×10’s.

New lift can be bolted onto the rails.

I’ve made a lot of progress on the roof- the frame is complete, the insulation is completely installed on both sides. I had to stop and measure how much insulation I had left- and use the hot wire foam cutter to cut the 9″ thick pieces down to size – they were too thick to fit in the boxes. Also, I had plenty of 5″ thick pieces, but not enough 7.5″ pieces. I found that 7.5″ is the sweet spot- the foam has a stated R-value of 4.6 per inch, so a 7.5 inch thick layer gets me R34.5, where only R30 is required. This doesn’t count the value of the 2″ thick decking, or the plywood, or the underlayment, which doesn’t add much, but does add some. To make the 7.5″ thick foam, I set the wire at 7.5″ above the cutting deck, then stacked two 5.5″ pieces on top of each other and fed them through the foam cutter to make a 7.5″ stack. I have enough foam left over for a very well insulated chicken coop.

Some folks have spent thousands on their insulation- even when buying used. I was able to get away with $400 for all the foam I could stuff into a huge U-haul van and my trailer pulled behind. Extremely cheap!

Problems

2x lumber isn’t what it says it is….

I wish I had thought more about the fact that a 2×10 and  2×8 were really 1 1/2×9 1/4 and 1 1/2×7 1/4, because that threw off some of my measurements. See, the ribs are 2×10’s, spaced 48″ OC apart. But the plywood is only rated to span 24″, so I needed a support between the 2×10’s. I didn’t want to just space  the 2×10 ribs at 24″ because that messes up my 48″ foam, and a 2×4 is a lot cheaper than a 2×10 no matter how you slice it. Besides, a solid piece of foam is a better insulator than a skinny 24″ strip of foam- that’s just simple physics.

Anyway, I planned to just put an 8′ long 2×4 between the 2×10 ribs, on top of the 2×8’s as a support, because the height of a 2×8 cross member + a 2×4 = height of a 2×10, right? wrong. There’s a 2″ vertical gap between the 2×8 & the 2×10, but the 8′ 2×4 laying on top of the 2×8 cross member is only 1 1/2″ thick, so there was a 1/2″ gap I had to fill between the top of the crossmember and the top of the 2×10 rib. I admit I actually couldn’t figure out at first why my plywood was sagging in the middle between the ribs. Oops.

Getting everything on the roof

Yes, this continues to be a problem. There are multiple solutions, but the main thing to remember is to keep the main thing (building the roof) the main thing. It’s easy to dream about a jib crane or some contraption with a winch motor that lifts everything up on the roof at the push of a button, but at the end of the day, the question isn’t “how did you do it?” as much as it’s “Did you do it?”. Sigh…..Up and down the ladder.

I would have used the shingle elevator, but it is on the opposite side of the house. Besides, I only needed 5 sheets for this part.

I figured out that I can lift four sheets of foam at a time with just a rope. So that helps. But the plywood is dangerously unwieldy, so I could only manage 5 sheets at a time using the elevator, or in the photo above, one at a time. In this case, it saved me carrying it from the elevator, up over the peak, and then down to be installed. You do what you have to do to get it done.

And the 2x lumber- well, I can lift about 30 of those at a time with the elevator, so that’s nice.

Nevertheless, I do have backup plans for a jib crane to lift shingles in case the shingle elevator goes kaput.

The ribs, foam, OSB, and you can just barely see the 2×4 spacers sticking out under the OSB.

Solutions

I added a 1/2″ x 1″ spacer to the 2×8 to lift the 2×4 up to the correct height. And on the boxes I hadn’t finished, I went ahead and lifted the 2×8 so that when I added the 2×4, it would be level with the 2×10. If I ever do this again…..

Using my Magnesium oil almost daily to stop the aches and pains of going up and down the ladder. It’s amazing stuff- helps the muscles heal, and protects joints.

I’ve used the car to run the elevator- just tie a rope to the front of the car, the other end goes to the pulley attached to the lift. Then back up, and everything goes up. Once it’s at the top of the lift, I climb the ladder and unload the supplies onto the roof. I carried almost every 4×8 sheet from the West side of the roof, up over the peak of the roof, and then down onto the East side of the roof. That was no fun, especially when it was a bit breezy.

I’m not sure how lifting shingles will end up- they are pretty heavy – about 60 lbs for each bundle. There are 99 of them…

Vent holes

I cut these in the roof to enable cool air from the ground to flow up the side of the house, into the roof, and out the peak. I made a template out of a scrap of T&G decking, then cut rectangular holes and covered them with heavy duty screen door mesh plus 1/4″ wire mesh. Here’s a video describing the theory of ventilation.

…And a change in roof design

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When looking at the roof from the ground, you don’t see the built-up part of the roof, at least from the front of the home. This makes the roof look thin and wimpy.

As an aside, I’ve several folks pull up and ask about the house, and if they ask about the roof and the T&G decking, they always assume I used 1×6 planks. They are always surprised when I show them a scrap and they find it’s actually 2×6 planks. I get about one visitor a week that actually pulls up and wants to ask questions, while I get a half dozen gawkers who stop in the road to take a look or a photo. I’m always happy to answer questions- to me, the LHBA method is the best method for getting a really cheap house that has tons of value.

The last one that pulled up really made me think about this- yes it’s vain to build up the whole roof just for looks. On the other hand, the whole thing is probably vain, if you want to take a minimalist view- I mean, I could have just plopped a mobile home on the property and said, “done”, right? But let’s stay focused here- I started looking at the roof, and decided they were right. I asked my wife about it, and she immediately said, “I’ve always wanted the whole roof to be thick.” She knew the whole time, but just didn’t want to make an issue out of it. Yes, I can usually finish the maze a few seconds behind the rats….

“It’ll be a lot more work,” I said.

“I know.”

“And a bit more expensive – like $500 more.”

“I know.”

She doesn’t want to pull up and look at the wimpy roof and hate it every time she comes home. I agree.

It also simplifies the drip edge and other issues I was having with making nice clean looking roof lines.

So….I ordered more lumber, plywood, tar paper, etc. Don’t need any more shingles, luckily.

More problems

When I added the extra 2×10’s to the roof, I found that the roof decking isn’t exactly flat. Big surprise? No, not surprised. I’m actually surprised that the gap was 2″ or less. Probably due to my 5×12 rafters not being perfect or something.  Anyway, to stop the critters from getting in there and make it look purdy, my wife gave me an idea – “why not put a piece of angled metal up there and screw the 2×10 to it, and then screw it to the deck?” It was a great idea, in fact:

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That’s all for now…Next up: I’ll finish shingling the roof.

 

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Roof – Part 2: Insulation and other materials

What is a Built Up Roof?

 

This style of roof is also known as a cathedral roof or ceiling. But the simplest answer is a built up roof is a roof where the insulation is on top of what you see from the inside – different from a roof where the insulation is inside and below the roof. A log home can be built with a conventional roof, but nobody wants to walk into a log home and look up to a white dry wall ceiling. Besides, according to a lot of folks who’ve done both styles- the built up roof is only a little more expensive, and it can be argued that it’s even less expensive if you are doing your own labor, if you consider the amount of work to install bats on the inside of the home rather than the top of the roof.

Materials for this roof

Similar to this roof…

The roof of my butt & pass log home starts with three RPSL’s (Ridge Pole Support Logs), which sit on three 18″x36″ piers that have a six foot square base, buried three feet in the ground. I estimate these piers to be able to support 50,000 lbs each, although the roof will probably only weigh about 70,000 lbs total.

The RPSL’s support a 56′ x 30″ sweet gum Ridge Pole, 30′ in the air.

5″x12″x27.5′ rafters spaced 4 feet apart rest on the walls and the Ridge Pole, spiked with rebar at their attachment points.

2″x6″ tongue and groove (T&G) decking are nailed to the rafters, with 8′ of overhang past the walls of the home at the gable ends, and 4′ of overhang on the eaves.

A synthetic underlayment goes over the top of the decking.

2″x10″ sleepers form a box frame around the solid foam insulation, but only on the insulated portion of the home.  They are spaced every 4′.  Outside of the home, on the overhang areas, shingles are applied to the underlayment, along with a drip edge and soffits.

On top of the insulation is plywood decking, tar paper, and then shingles.

Eventually, we’ll do a metal roof, but I really like the idea that for now my roof will be protected by plywood and shingles, where, if we just did metal, we could forget the plywood, and just screw the metal directly through the foam and into the rafters and decking. That extra umph from the plywood and shingles gives me some peace of mind.

When you buy used….

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I’ve scoured craigslist for insulation for almost a year, and finally got a hit from a guy removing insulation from a senior retirement complex and selling it for $6 for a full sheet. I rented a U-Haul, attached my trailer, and stuffed that thing to the gills with as much foam as I could get in there – which was only $400 worth of foam. I hired my step-son Arthur to help on his day off, and it was a smart move- he worked hard and we had no problems on the road.

With all that, I think I have enough. Alabama requires roof insulation to be R30 or better. The manufacturer of the foam I bought claims R-value of 4.6 / inch. So, an 8″ thick sheet would have an R-value of 8 x 4.6 = R36.8. I wanted to get to R50, but would need bigger sleepers, a ton more foam, and it just wasn’t worth it. Besides, my wife doesn’t like the roof any thicker than it has to be, so 8″ thick it is.

 

At first, I was worried about the foam because it slopes by about 0.75″ – 1″, due to the way the previous roofer installed it on the retirement home, so I set up my foam cutter to slice the foam flat. Here’s a video of that.

Later, I decided that since I only need to meet or beat R-30, having all the pieces perfectly flat isn’t all that important, as long as I get to 8″, I’ll be fine. More important is that the foam is four feet wide, and the sleepers are spaced four feet apart on center. This means I had to cut 1.5″ off the foam to make it fit in between the sleepers. Some folks used a saw, but that is messy. I wanted something better, so I turned the foam cutter on its side and used it to slice off 1.5″. I used a borrowed Rheostat transformer from my buddy, Ellery. Here it is in action again.

Careful…that wire is red-hot

I also got the lumber, used, from a local guy….who said he was going to use it to build a cabin, but had too many other projects on his plate. We talked for a good hour at his house- he informed me that I could get a residential builders license just by taking a test and paying a fee. I’ve always thought to become a General Contractor, you had to work for a General Contractor for two years, but they are not the same thing. So now, I’m thinking about this idea……

Trimming the edge

I put the decking on the roof, knowing that I was going to come back later and trim up the ends of it. Turned out to be very scary and took a lot of motivation to get up there and cut it. I originally thought that I would have to “square the roof” to make it look right, but my buddy Ronnie said, “any thought of making the roof square should’ve gone out the window when you started building with logs.”  I think he’s right- my logs are crooked, the Ridge Pole has a slight bow in it, the RPSL’s are no better, the cap logs are off, the rafters are homemade- nothing lines up, so….If I go off and have this perfectly square roof sitting up there, it’ll look cock-eyed from the ground when compared to the rest of the house. What I ended up doing was following Ronnie’s advice: just snap a chalk line about 2.5′ from the last rafter (the one that sticks out the farthest), and run a skilsaw up the edge.

As a one man show with no man-lift, I made a tool out of rebar that I could slip over the end of the decking to “feel” where the rafter was, and then use that as a reference to snap the chalk line.

Here’s a video of me with the tool I made to help line up my cuts.

Cutting with the skill saw on the edge of the roof, and knowing that the saw could jump out of my hand at any moment, thirty feet in the air- it was all quite unnerving. I tied on, and also used one hand to hold the rope while I ran the saw with the other hand. I think it turned out great, and I’m the only one who can see the little wobbles here and there (they are not that bad, I’m just saying I know there are some ;).

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Next up…

I build a shingle elevator to get everything up on the roof. I need to get the 2×10’s up there, set them at 4′ apart, then screw them to the roof. I need to frame all around them and inside so I have a place to screw the plywood to that will sit atop the foam insulation. But I need quite a few days of dry weather to make sure the foam doesn’t get wet.

 

Shipping Container

I thought the process of getting a shipping container would be straightforward, but like everything else, it was quite a stressful adventure.

How to store your stuff

From the beginning, we’ve worried about our stuff getting stolen. So far, I’ve lost a critter cam that was aimed at my tractor, some gas cans, some tow chains and two chain binders. I think it’s a theft of convenience. Our property backs up to some woods, and the woods back up to someone’s backyard, and beyond that is a trailer park. Our neighbor says that people have been walking from the trailer park through our property and on over to another neighborhood. I think some of them are thieves looking for easy pickings, but I can’t imagine the use of two chain binders, unless you’re a trucker or building a log home.

Many folks build a garage as their first project. Then they store their tools while they build their house. I wanted to build faster so we could move there ASAP. I considered building a shed, but that would require a permit and a foundation. A fence would only stop people who can’t climb. I needed something I can lock. We are at the point where we have some expensive stuff about to be left overnight- like a sawmill, and building materials.

I’ve seen ads for shipping containers for years, but they can be a little pricey in my estimation:

All the ones I’ve seen for under $2,000 are also 20′ long or less. My plans call for 26′ rafters, so I needed at least a 40′ shipping container if I was going to use it for storing rafters.

I need 32 rafters, 4″x12″, and 26′ long. The shipping container is 8.5′ tall and 8.5′ wide. I can get 12 in a row in a space only 3′ wide, and then stack them 3 levels high, and still only be in a space 3′ high. Plenty of room for spacers to help them dry a little.

I’m starting to find some deals on rigid foam roof insulation, but I need somewhere dry to store 3 trailers-full of the stuff. I need stacks of plywood and car decking for the roof.  I expect to store hardware like joists, nails, screws, wiring, plumbing, and on and on in there as well. I can also put the sawmill in there, as well as the tractor, and all my tools. Currently, I store them in the neighbor’s garage. It would be nice to have everything on site.

I also like the idea that it can be locked tight, and that it weighs 8400 lbs empty, and takes specialized equipment to move.

Finding a shipping container

I’ve been watching craigslist for a while. Then this ad for a 40′ container popped up:

I went to look at it. It was a 2 hour drive south of here. It looked nice and solid. The day I looked at it we received 4″ of rain. Inside was nearly dry- just a tiny pinhole leak near the door. I believe I can seal it with some silicone patch. I offered him $800 for it, and he accepted.

Dealing with shady individuals

That’s when the fun started. He wanted to drive up to Huntsville to meet me late one night while my wife was at the movies with the kids. At night. I was thinking, “wait, I give him my money, but who’s to say I can pick up the shipping container?” Maybe he found it while he was out driving, and knowing that it had been there a while, he just snaps a few pics, and tries to sell it. Maybe he sells it to me today, sells it to another guy tomorrow, then another guy on Friday, and whoever picks it up first wins? I discussed with my wife. She felt very uncomfortable with the whole thing. I started having a bad feeling about it too. But the price was very good.

I called a dozen wreckers and moving companies- no one could move it for a reasonable price. The container dealers don’t like moving containers they don’t sell. No one else had anything big enough to pick it up. One guy said call another company, who said to call a container company in Decatur, who said to call a wrecker company in Hartselle. The Hartselle company said they could do it for about $650. I thought that sounded reasonable.

But how to coordinate with the seller? I didn’t want to give him my money without getting the container. He seemed ok with me getting the container first and paying for it later- but was too relaxed about it- more suspicious behavior.

He agreed that I could pay him when I came to pick up the container on Tuesday. Then he called on Friday, and he was saying someone else was interested who would pay full price, but if I wanted it, he would give it to me for the price I offered, but I had to buy it now. I had to decide if it was a scam or not. Julie was livid. She thought it was a total scam, and said to call his bluff. I was so wrapped up in the idea that “this is the one”, that I couldn’t think straight. If this worked out, we would be saving $1000 over the other containers I’d found. Julie said there were some conditions he had to meet if I was going to buy it- I had to see his drivers license, and also go inside his house or business and see that it was a real place. I agreed and drove an hour to meet him at his “office.”

Stress for the holidays

He said he had a business license, and if I wanted to see it, I could (so Julie would feel more comfortable with the deal).

He met me in a gas station parking lot in Albertville, then had me follow him on a winding road where I lost cell signal for a little while. I was on the phone with Julie giving her a physical description and his van’s tag. If you think I’m over-reacting, just google how many people get killed answering a craigslist ad. Suspicious behavior checklist: meeting at night? check. meeting out on the end of some winding lonely road? check. Giving money to someone but not receiving the item you paid for immediately? check. Seller has a sad story? check. Seller forgot to bring his drivers license with him like he agreed to do? check. Can’t see the business license because the business is closed unexpectedly? Check. Meeting in the parking lot of the supposed business instead of going into the business? Check.

I took a breath and paid him. Then stressed out for the holiday weekend. With Christmas on Monday, the tow company couldn’t get it until Tuesday, they said, so call them on Christmas Day to arrange delivery for the next business day. I did that, but the driver who picks up containers had Tuesday off, and it wouldn’t be until Wednesday.

I didn’t want to drive 2 hours to find out the container was gone, and then still have to pay the towing company, so Julie suggested I go out 3 hours ahead of the towing company and make sure it was there before I dispatched them to come get it.

There was a Days Inn next door to where the container was parked. I called them on my way and asked if they could look out the window and tell me if a big orange container was still there. The lady answered and said, “No, there is nothing next door.” I freaked out. I still had an hour to go before I could see for myself.

Things work out ok

I finally rounded the last corner- and there it was- still there. Whew. I knitted while I waited for the tow company. The guy showed up and we had no problems getting it loaded. He said he didn’t have to use log books because federal law doesn’t require them for trips less than 100 miles. He said he was 95 miles from home. He was doing this move, and going home afterwards.

He followed me to the property, and we got it unloaded. I had previously measured the driveway- 20′. The road was also 20′. He said he could make it. It worked out ok.

Now to get some heavy duty locks, and start storing stuff in anticipation of getting the roof on.

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How to make your own triple blocks for less than $45

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Why a triple block? Why not a double? or a single?

Because two triple blocks working together gives you a 7:1 mechanical advantage- 5,000 lb log requires only ~720 lbs of force to lift. And you can use just 5/8″ thick rope to lift 720 lbs. A double block would only reduce the force down to 1,250 lb. But you have to double that- for each end of the log. And a single……ummmmm…..there’s no mechanical advantage to a single. Stop talking about single pulleys. On the other end, a “quadruple” block doesn’t really exist beyond huge construction cranes with wire rope- from what I’ve seen and read, anything more than three pulleys and the friction increases beyond the efficiency gained. So, a triple block it is.

First, I looked online. And found…..not quite nothing, but almost. It’s unbelievable in this age of Amazon and Ebay that you can’t find a triple block with more than 3,000 pound capacity. I suppose not many people are lifting heavy objects by hand. Ok, you can find them, but they are insanely expensive, and you need two to make a set. Not to mention you need four sets to work efficiently. Look at that price:

I mean, I guess you could climb a 30-foot lifting pole and change the block and tackle out every time you want to lift a log, but you would still need four pulleys- two on each pole- to lift each log. So, it would cost you $1,300, plus rope (about $300).

This calls for a cheaper solution:

Enter Harbor Freight:

Of course, I’d need six of them to make a set, but that’s only $72, not $327. And some grade 8 bolts, which are easy to obtain from Fastenall.

Here’s what I came up with:

 

 

Some more notes: I needed somewhere to tie the end of the rope- on the antique pulleys, there’s a place called a becket . I didn’t have one, so I took two extra plates from a single pulley, and put a bolt through them.

The results

I just finished lifting the biggest log yet- over 6 feet around at the base, and 50+ feet long- I figure it weighs around 6,000 lbs. The pulley held just fine- in fact, it held better than the #6 triples that I had on the opposite end. The singles (on the box) were originally rated for 3,000 lbs, so I figure the modified triple is worth at least that much, but with that huge log, probably more like 4,000 lbs.

I spent $12 per pulley x 3 pulleys = $36. The two grade 8 bolts were about $4 each. So for ~$45, I got what normally costs over $300.